Showing posts with label Ian Kennedy. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Ian Kennedy. Show all posts

Wednesday, July 25, 2012

The myth of the Yankees inability to develop pitching

Shhh, Nova doesnt know the Yankees can't develop Starting pitching
The Yankees cannot develop pitchers....thats the narrative, their organization is incapable of developing a single good pitcher which is why they need to buy pitchers. The problem of course is that its a total myth, the Yankees have been developing pitchers consistently the last few years but people have been looking at the failure of Joba Chamberlain as a starting pitcher and saying that the Yankee organization is incapable of developing pitchers. Yes the Yankees messed up Joba in 2009 with their stupid Joba rules,  he had that amazing run in 2008 but he needed more development time after pitching only half a season in the minors. He had great stuff and the Yankees rushed him and they got burned, it happens to everybody, for all the praise the Rays get for player development they have a ton of draft busts or players that underwhelmed or burned out. Part of the problem is that New York is different, somebody can pitch through a bad year if you play in Minnesota or San Diego, but in New York you do badly and your out the door. I talked about this in the first A True Yankee podcast, but people seem to have this idea that teams should develop these ace pitchers, but the only team who seems to develop pitchers out of nothing is the Rays; its a crap shoot, some pitching prospects succeed some don't. The Giants trio of Lincium, Cain and Bumbgardner being good isnt a sign of how good they are at developing pitchers, these guys were all 1st round draft picks that were expected to be good. The Yankees had their big three in Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy and despite the idea that the big three was a bust they are all successful Major league pitcher, I know the Killer B's have been a bust but not all prospects work out.

Lets also take a look at the starting pitchers that were developed in the Yankees system the last few years: Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, Zach Mcallister, Ivan Nova, David Phelps, Hector Noesi, Chien-Ming Wang, Jeff Karstens, Ted Lilly. Ian Kennedy was the highest draft pick of any of these pitchers at 21st overall so the Yankees miss out on the cream of the crop in terms of pitching talent, but still if you include Jose Quintana then the Yankees account for 10 of the 150 Starting pitchers in baseball right now or two full team rotations, that seems pretty good to me.

To be fair this talk has died down a little since Nova came on the scene and Hughes turned his season around but I wonder if people will still be talking about this stuff in the next few years as the Yankees look to rely more on their homegrown players to keep costs down. If in 2013 the rotation is 3/5 homegrown pitchers is it still gonna be said the Yankees cannot develop pitchers. Lets also be clear in that the Yankees have been been better than anyone in finding Power arms late in the draft and turning them into great bullpen pieces. Part of the problem is that the Yankees have a fan base and media following that wants five aces and anything less than that is not going to be good enough. The fact that the Yankees have not only survived their starting pitcher injuries but have flourished is a testament to their pitching depth and you get depth by developing pitchers. If you wanna read a little bit more detail about this topic check out this article written by Greg Corcoran of Bronx baseball daily.

Wednesday, March 16, 2011

The Granderson Trade

Today Jon Heyman from Sports illustrated tweeted that Austin Jackson is looking like a future superstar and is better than Granderson, the obvious implication being that the Yankees made a mistake in trading Jackson, Ian Kennedy and Phil Coke for Curtis Granderson(who happens to be turning 30 today). Others agree, including many Yankees fans who believe that the Yankees should have kept Jackson and the other pieces of that trade instead of trading them for a center fielder who in 2010 underperformed to say the least. Phil Coke is going to be starting for the Tigers this year and Ian Kennedy was recently named the opening day starter for Arizona and so Arizona and Detroit both seemed to have benefited from the deal. As all of you likely know Austin Jackson finished second last year in the Rookie of the year voting behind Neftali Feliz and his 40 saves and it would have been very cool to have a 2/3 home grown outfield, i think people are missing a big part of this deal.
Before 2010 Austin Jackson had never played a single game in the Majors and while he was hitting .300 in AAA in 2009 that's the minors and we have no idea if those numbers will be anywhere near what a player hits in the majors, so Austin Jackson was a big question mark for the Tigers and while it was very likely that Jackson would hit nobody knew how he would react to the big stage. Another key factor in this is that Austin Jackson is very similar to Brett Gardner in that he is a contact hitter with almost no power, will be good in the outfield and will steal bases.

Austin Jackson generated a 2.9 WAR rating in 2010 and put up the following stats:

Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG









2010 23 DET AL 151 675 618 103 181 34 10 4 41 27 6 47 170 .293 .345 .400










Brett Gardner in his sophomore year had a 4 WAR year in 2010 and put up these stats


If you dont feel like following the link the important ones are a BA of .277 an OBP of .383, 47 Stolen bases and 5 Home runs.

























As you can see while Jackson hit better, Gardner had a better on Base percentage and stole more bases and while Jackson did hit for a better average that could be relate to Gardner's drop off after his wrist injury that he never fully recovered from. Also Jackson and Gardner and Granderson generated the EXACT same fielding stats and so the outfield likely would have been just as good defensively as last year. Gardner is also a better base stealer and while they both strike out a lot Gardner generates a lot of walks while Jackson does not and all of Jackson's stats are from leading off while Gardner generated his mostly in the 9th and 2nd spots.
However Jackson was traded for Granderson and Granderson had the worst year of his career last year with a 2.1 WAR and .247 BA, also he hit 24 HR which considering that he hit 30 in detroit last year is disappointing. However Granderson has refined his swing with Kevin Long and the Yankees will need him to hit like he did in the post season because he will be very important to the Yankees in 2011.
Another part of this trade which is often forgotten in Ian Kennedy one of the Big three pitching prospects of the Yankees with Joba and Hughes was traded for Granderson as well and while he went 9-10 he had a 3.80 ERA in 194 innings and had a 2.7 WAR with a whip of 1.2. However Kennedy did give up 26 Home runs and led the league in Wild Pitches. Coke had a negative WAR season with the Yankees in 2009 and while he improved for detroit I don't particularly miss Coke that much. If you look at in based on WAR then the Yankees gave up 2.1+ .6 + 2.9= 5.6 WAR for Curtis Granderson's 2.5 WAR for $4 million dollars more than Detroit and Arizona had to spend.
Hindsight is 20/20 and overall Arizona and Detroit got the better part of the deal than the Yankees, but both Kennedy and Jackson had break out years and quite frankly neither of these players would have likely fit in New York very well and the Yankees like Granderson especially after the tweaks to his swing. Also there have been a lot of players with great rookie seasons who faltered afterward, Jackson is a great player who is going to be a star, but in the MLB superstar outfielders are guys who hit no less than 20+ Home Runs or steal 40+ Bases and Austin Jackson is not going to do either one of those. Ian Kennedy is going to be a great  pitcher who will continue to give up a lot of Home runs, but he is in chase field which is ranked as the 3rd most hitter friendly park in the MLB and he likely would have been better than Javier Vazquez or he could have gotten shelled like he did in 2008. Some people believe that the Yankees lost out on Phil Coke now that he is going to be Starting in detroit, I know he is a lefty but he has only ever started 1 game in AAA and never pitched more than 65 innings in the majors. I don't know if Brian Cashman regrets trading for Granderson but Granderson was an established outfielder, while Jackson was an untested slower Brett Gardner who struck out a lot while Kennedy seemed to have no place with the Yankees in 2010 and he made the decision. Would Yankees fans have been ok with the only home run production in the outfield coming from Nick Swisher? If this trade could be done again I guarantee that the Yankees would not have given as much for Granderson, not because of a lack of production from him but because Jackson would be enough for the deal to happen.